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	<title>Comments for Little Dog Syndrome</title>
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	<description>Nathan Lyle&#039;s BLAH-G</description>
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		<title>Comment on When will it all end? by Nathan Lyle</title>
		<link>http://www.littledogsyndrome.com/2010/03/21/when-will-it-all-end/comment-page-1/#comment-6</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan Lyle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Apr 2010 01:26:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>You of course have the right to be offended, though you&#039;ll have to have put more than a little work into it - this post wasn&#039;t in any way directed at you, or even fundamentalists in general. My mention of that was an analogy, something that the current rant/rave had me thinking of.

That being said, while I can&#039;t speak to what facts you may have personally ignored or rationalized away (we&#039;ve not spoken specifically enough for me to have a list) I can answer you based on what I see in general from believers who are heavily invested in their religion. (Again, not you yourself, but examples from my experience.) 

The easiest example is myself. Going back to the early days, when I was still driving my parent&#039;s minivan out to your place filled with teens for bible study, I was learning and growing as a Christian. There were issues that would come up, like the concept of &quot;trinity&quot;, where I would hear and read many different opinions. I say &quot;opinions&quot; because to each person, it wasn&#039;t opinion but a fact. Everyone was always convinced that their understanding was &quot;right&quot; and other people were at best misguided. Looking back years later, I can see that much of my &quot;faith&quot; was a house of cards. I built it up, taking the pieces that made sense, rationalizing things that didn&#039;t fit, and putting together my new world view. I had no idea at the time that that&#039;s what was happening - and would have denied it vehemently if you&#039;d told me I was doing it. At the time, I was reading and learning, praying and growing, and doing my best to grow in wisdom with God&#039;s guidance. 

Eventually I was able to understand better that period of my life. And since then, I&#039;ve seen others doing the same thing. It&#039;s not just religion that sees this happen, but it&#039;s one of the easiest examples. The phrase you used, &quot;the way that God lays out&quot; is similar to things my brother has used in argument with me, when he tells me that it&#039;s not his view that matters, but God&#039;s. That&#039;s all fine and well to say, but when you (or my brother, or any other person) is telling me anything that they believe to be Truth, it is by necessity their own human understanding of it. Otherwise there would be no way for them to be conveying it to me. I have no problem with saying there is an objective Truth, but I see no way for any of us to ever grasp it. We are stuck behind our senses. We don&#039;t perceive the world as it is, there are time delays and distortions in every thing we take in. Add to that the issue of comprehension, the understanding of ideas across vastly different frames of context, and it&#039;s amazing we can agree on a restaurant to meet at for dinner. 

If you want to start debating individual biblical contradictions, here&#039;s a decent starting point: http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html

A good book I read this last year that does a pretty good job of defining a large part of where my current issues with Christianity are is Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why (http://www.amazon.com/dp/0060738170)

And, all that aside, my main point with this post was regarding the false dichotomy of our current political game. I&#039;m tired of the name calling and villainizing (sp?).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You of course have the right to be offended, though you&#8217;ll have to have put more than a little work into it &#8211; this post wasn&#8217;t in any way directed at you, or even fundamentalists in general. My mention of that was an analogy, something that the current rant/rave had me thinking of.</p>
<p>That being said, while I can&#8217;t speak to what facts you may have personally ignored or rationalized away (we&#8217;ve not spoken specifically enough for me to have a list) I can answer you based on what I see in general from believers who are heavily invested in their religion. (Again, not you yourself, but examples from my experience.) </p>
<p>The easiest example is myself. Going back to the early days, when I was still driving my parent&#8217;s minivan out to your place filled with teens for bible study, I was learning and growing as a Christian. There were issues that would come up, like the concept of &#8220;trinity&#8221;, where I would hear and read many different opinions. I say &#8220;opinions&#8221; because to each person, it wasn&#8217;t opinion but a fact. Everyone was always convinced that their understanding was &#8220;right&#8221; and other people were at best misguided. Looking back years later, I can see that much of my &#8220;faith&#8221; was a house of cards. I built it up, taking the pieces that made sense, rationalizing things that didn&#8217;t fit, and putting together my new world view. I had no idea at the time that that&#8217;s what was happening &#8211; and would have denied it vehemently if you&#8217;d told me I was doing it. At the time, I was reading and learning, praying and growing, and doing my best to grow in wisdom with God&#8217;s guidance. </p>
<p>Eventually I was able to understand better that period of my life. And since then, I&#8217;ve seen others doing the same thing. It&#8217;s not just religion that sees this happen, but it&#8217;s one of the easiest examples. The phrase you used, &#8220;the way that God lays out&#8221; is similar to things my brother has used in argument with me, when he tells me that it&#8217;s not his view that matters, but God&#8217;s. That&#8217;s all fine and well to say, but when you (or my brother, or any other person) is telling me anything that they believe to be Truth, it is by necessity their own human understanding of it. Otherwise there would be no way for them to be conveying it to me. I have no problem with saying there is an objective Truth, but I see no way for any of us to ever grasp it. We are stuck behind our senses. We don&#8217;t perceive the world as it is, there are time delays and distortions in every thing we take in. Add to that the issue of comprehension, the understanding of ideas across vastly different frames of context, and it&#8217;s amazing we can agree on a restaurant to meet at for dinner. </p>
<p>If you want to start debating individual biblical contradictions, here&#8217;s a decent starting point: <a href="http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html</a></p>
<p>A good book I read this last year that does a pretty good job of defining a large part of where my current issues with Christianity are is Misquoting Jesus: The Story Behind Who Changed the Bible and Why (<a href="http://www.amazon.com/dp/0060738170" rel="nofollow">http://www.amazon.com/dp/0060738170</a>)</p>
<p>And, all that aside, my main point with this post was regarding the false dichotomy of our current political game. I&#8217;m tired of the name calling and villainizing (sp?).</p>
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		<title>Comment on When will it all end? by Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.littledogsyndrome.com/2010/03/21/when-will-it-all-end/comment-page-1/#comment-5</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Apr 2010 17:14:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.littledogsyndrome.com/?p=227#comment-5</guid>
		<description>Gee, Nate...I find it at least a little bit insulting to be catagorized as a person that ignores and/or rationalizes &quot;facts&quot; that do not support my point of view.  When presented with irrefutable facts I am more than happy to reconsider what I believe, however just because a person decides that their way is better or more correct than the way that God lays out, the things presented as facts have very little creedence. This is particularly true when refering to a person with maybe 30 to 60 years of life experience as opposed to 4000 years of recorded history and fulfilled prophecy.  When those things are disproved (and there are thousands trying to do just that at every monent) then I will consider opinion relevant and possibly elevate it to the status of &quot;fact&quot;.  Now I am curious. Which &quot;facts&quot; have I conveniently and/or intentionally ignored or rationalized away?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gee, Nate&#8230;I find it at least a little bit insulting to be catagorized as a person that ignores and/or rationalizes &#8220;facts&#8221; that do not support my point of view.  When presented with irrefutable facts I am more than happy to reconsider what I believe, however just because a person decides that their way is better or more correct than the way that God lays out, the things presented as facts have very little creedence. This is particularly true when refering to a person with maybe 30 to 60 years of life experience as opposed to 4000 years of recorded history and fulfilled prophecy.  When those things are disproved (and there are thousands trying to do just that at every monent) then I will consider opinion relevant and possibly elevate it to the status of &#8220;fact&#8221;.  Now I am curious. Which &#8220;facts&#8221; have I conveniently and/or intentionally ignored or rationalized away?</p>
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